Project Elvira – Intro and Update

[mrvette]

wow nice engineering!!!

Damn straight, and $$$ spent too, but I have a question, what is the diameter of the new rotors?? or the old stock rotors for that matter, unless the old stock shit is too large and would hit the spring/cross support, wouldn't getting Toms' to make the new axles with the 5 lug pattern easily facilitate any adapter needed for any 1/2 shaft set up.....and simplify/cheapen up the install?? :beer:

 

[phantomjock]

wow nice engineering!!!

AGAIN - Many thanks for those kind comments.

Damn straight, and $$$ spent too, but I have a question, what is the diameter of the new rotors?? or the old stock rotors for that matter, unless the old stock shit is too large and would hit the spring/cross support, wouldn't getting Toms' to make the new axles with the 5 lug pattern easily facilitate any adapter needed for any 1/2 shaft set up.....and simplify/cheapen up the install?? :beer:

My flight got a weather/equipment delay so I'm still in FL and not just yet enroute to S.E.A. so, I'll work and answer or two.

Gene, the rotors I'm using are are two piece, and are 11.75 inch OD. They match my C5/6 setup, and since I sent the old C3 rotors to scrap - don't have to measure to compare. Also, since I don't have the original differential support member available to compare, I can only guess, but I'd bet the inboard brake option might hit it. [Maybe if I have some time on CAD later, I can draw something out?]
{Small-minor detail: I show the calipers mounted horizontally. My preference is vertical, but couldn't get them to stay still while taking the pictures!}

Yes, a few $$ invested, but I guess that is what I get for trying to engineer this approach - and then revise on-the-fly. Then the inevitable miss-steps on making/placing orders.
EXAMPLE:

The companion flanges - I was able to swap a miss-ordered set with the good folks in Sacramento, but there was the inevitable return postage to pay. Also, my machinist and I have figured a better way of machining the new disks for the floating rotor "hats" and cut the cost in about half. Too late smart...:banghead:​

I checked with Tom's Differentials earlier and he was flat out and not taking on any new projects. I also checked and have had some conversation with Dan at VanSteel - they "might" be interested in a CV axle approach, but were at best on the fence when we spoke. So, I thought I'd sort out the pieces for me and see whats up.

Some of the folks on other forums use Porsche CV axles and Pappy (mfain) mentioned in one the other threads - but I was already well into the C5/6 axles.

As I've sort of experimented with several suspension setups much was on-hand from previous configurations. But the "roll up" looks like this.

So far, this lists the pieces - not the prices:

1 @ C3 4.11 Diff [On-hand, But set up for U-Joints]

Jim's Giovanni Suspension exercise]
http://vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7705

2 @ Calipers [On-hand, never used] (New Van Steel)
16 @ 3/4" Heims and jam nuts (8 LH + 8 RH)
4 @ 1/2" Heims (2 LH + 2 RH) Toe Control Struts
A BUNCH of Shock Mount Tabs and chassis tabs to mount the Control Arms, and
Way too many hex tube and swedged tube bits and pieces to even count!


First Version IRS - DIY uprights and C3 Wheel Bearings
1 @ Rear Sub Frame [built for DIY Dual Wishbone IRS with U-Joint slip shafts]

Revised IRS with C5/6 Uprights added:
http://vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7751
2 @ C5 Racing (SKF) Wheel Bearings (New Van Steel)
2@ C5/6 Uprights (Used - eBay)
2 @ QA-1 Dual Adjust Coil Over Shocks
2 @ C5/6 CV Axles (New)
2 complete sets of inserts and machining for each upright
2 sets upper & lower Ball Joints
2 sets Control Arm Mounts to Ball Joints for uprights
2 @Left side (driver's) C5 output shafts cut and welded to the Companion Flanges [This Project]


IRS/Inboard Brake Build
http://vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10667&page=2
2 @ Wilwood 11.75" OD 8 x 7" 2-piece rotors [Great deal on eBay]
2 @ 8" x 1/2" 6061 T6 Aluminum Discs - machined as floating rotor hats
4 @ Caliper mount brackets (to be fabbed when I return) to mount Calipers
2 @ Companion Flanges
2 @ Tom's Flanged Output Axles/Shafts
16 @T Bobbins for floating rotor
16 @ bushings to mate with Rotor mount holes
16 sets shoulder screws and nuts

​

So, I can say at this point I've learned a lot, and may have a few approaches I'd change - but will be seeing this to conclusion when I get back. I like the inboard brake concept. I'll be pairing that set up with a brake recirculator system, and blown ducts to work cooling inboard. Those will be fun to work in. I still have brakelines, spot brakes for parking e-Brake and a hydraulic brake (that may/may not work with recirculation), and proportioning valve to install, and the obligatory "roll-control" on the front brakes.

In the next few months, I'll try and post up some of the other work that I've gotten done and some that I will need to finish; Headers and Exhaust, Gullwing Doors (a tease at this point), Chassis and Cage, and some other bits.

Cheers - Jim

 

[phantomjock]

Just putting into perspective

Gene mentioned $$$.
Here is the Heidts IRS - used in mustangs, Tri5s, Camaros, etc.


Price, about $9000. PLUS Installation! Whew!


But, it has interesting components and similar approach to what I'm doing:

I believe what I've labeled as Caliper Mount is just that - maybe not -but very similar approach.

Cheers - Jim

 

[rtj]

Very interesting.

 

[vette427sbc]

Any updates?

 

[phantomjock]

I do owe an update. Been Busy – Flew to Southeast Asia in time to miss New Year’s Eve. Then got to work on my other “madness.”
We left the sailboat in Malaysia for the 4 years I was recalled to Active Duty. Last season was a marathon rebuild of the bowsprit, clean diesel fuel tanks (yechhh – 5 years of condensation makes for a lot of slime), new batteries, boxes for them and a bunch of rewiring.
Here is a picture just before we re-launched in mid- January:


We launched knowing we had engine work to do, so got towed to the slip and got started on working the engine. The diesel cooling system was sludge, slime, and crystalized coolant. There had been some leaks as well in the heat exchanger, so a big effort was started:


It would not even start as the starter had suffered from the leaking heat exchanger too:


Turbo, Intercooler, Alternators, and then, the Heat exchanger had to be removed, Naturally , putting it back together was a multi-day effort too. The engine started mid-February, after nearly 5 years of hibernation!

Other chores on the boat sails on, furling gear, anchors, windlass, on it goes. Then a delivery up to Thailand and return to the ‘States early April – and back to Elvira.
I’d post some more, but our wireless on this island is pretty spotty. Once I get to Phuket, it should be better and I’ll add some of the historical details on Elvira, like header design, etc.

Cheers - Jim

 

[bobs77vet]

Jim nice looking boat. enjoy!

 

[phantomjock]

Enough Farting Around! Time to get back to the Garage!

Ok - I'm back and busy once again on Elvira.
Still working bodywork - trying to get that out of the way and back to mechanicals.
Here's a pictorial update:
First thing I realized - I'd need to move the split line on the rear clip to ensure the flares would clear the tires when lifting on the hinge:

So that meant glue the rear clip back in position. Also makes it easier to mount the flares:
But hmm how to make sure they wind up the same on each side? Denis graciously lent me his home made "Tabs" but that wouldn't work for my flares - so I needed to Think Some.
I built a jig!

Heaps of fiddling and looking to be satisfied:

Looks like it might work:

Well, lets glue them on and get on with it:

You'll note I needed to re fasten the gull-wing doors too. You'll note the sketch lines for the new cut-lines for the Gull-Wings.

That required some inner "tabs"

With both sides of the rear done - time to re-cut the aft "clip"

Yep looks pretty good - on both sides:

Same technique for the fronts - just a little lower on the body:

Now cut the Gull-Wings out again - and the windows:

It was a Beach Boys tune that went:"..If she had a set of wings, Man I know she could fly..."

That's been the last couple of days work - time off for a WHO Concert in Jacksonville, and all day today doing clean up and re-enforcements:



Next its build the front (nose) light boxes - kinda like the Greenwood "shovel nose" on the VetteMod masthead, and tie in the front flares there.

Then, add new split lines to remove the hood. Meanwhile, sort out the hinges for the Gull-Wings, the rear clip mounts and make some "wells" for the over-center latches I picked up to keep the things in place.

Then sand fill, fair, sand fill, prep for paint, remover the body, and FINALLY, get back to some mechanical work.

Cheers -- Jim

Gene If I had time I'd have come over and looked you up too. As it was we spent our spare time "Marina Shopping." Some nice choices on the east side. We may become part-time "neighbors" in a year or two.

 

[SRountree]

This is going to be really cool! cant wait to see more!

 

[mrvette]

I do owe an update. Been Busy – Flew to Southeast Asia in time to miss New Year’s Eve. Then got to work on my other “madness.”
We left the sailboat in Malaysia for the 4 years I was recalled to Active Duty. Last season was a marathon rebuild of the bowsprit, clean diesel fuel tanks (yechhh – 5 years of condensation makes for a lot of slime), new batteries, boxes for them and a bunch of rewiring.
Here is a picture just before we re-launched in mid- January:


Cheers - Jim

I used to sail hell outta the Chesapeake Bay outta Annapolis, and points south for years/decades......fishing too off a buddy's power boat....

so much so that I got skin cancer all over me now.....damnit....age 71.....


hit Lonk Ilant south bay too, even the sound, once.....did North Carolina outta the Neuse river too,

and of course a little bit here in Jax Florida.....


gotta love it, GREAT HOBBY!!!!! tons of FUN......nothing like a 36' Catamaran up on one keel and hiking out praying for no flip....

much less getting complimented by a park ranger that he NEVER seen ANY sail as large as ours up in to estuary off a creek where the park was.....we sailing a 20' boat in 2' of water or less....obviously the centerboard was UP....

:nuts:

 

[phantomjock]

Been "messing around" some

Figgure its time for an update. With the flares mounted and building the light boxes - I started sand/fill/sand/fill/etc/etc, you all know the drill. Was doing it in the garage and made an absolute disaster of that area, so moved nose and tail outside.
There I worked first with Chopped Strand to do the build up and then fairing compound.


Then lifted the birdcage off the chassis & roll cage to get that out to work:


Built a low body dolly to set the body on - makes the neighbors think there is progress on this effort:


The wheels on the dolly are "playful"


With a cover on it - It even looks near normal.

Hmmm, I may need to forgo the induction cowl for visibility. What do ya think?


With the body off, I can get the garage cleaned up and get back to the mechanicals this week. Hope to report some more progress soon. I've been told by She Who Must Be Obeyed; "Do that bodywork outside - or take it to the shop!" I'll now be at the mercy of the weather.

Cheers - Jim

 

[JPhil]

Hmmm, I may need to forgo the induction cowl for visibility. What do ya think?

No, I think it's fine. It's very visible.

 

[denpo]

Well, this entire build is bonker in an awesome way, but the cowl.... I'm in no way a racer, but wouldn't it be impeding your driving skills?

 

[phantomjock]

Well, this entire build is bonker in an awesome way, but the cowl.... I'm in no way a racer, but wouldn't it be impeding your driving skills?

yeah - I'm thinkin' it would be like: "Juggling Chainsaws with a Blindfold on!"
I may take off the blindfold - while on the track. Can't get old by being stoopid!
Cheers - Jim

 

[Red77]

I like the bicycle wheel placement for the neighbors. ;-)

 

[phantomjock]

So its been 4 years since I've posted on this thread. FOUR YEARS! I looked through all 500 of my threads - and this was over halfway back! I have been goofing off.

Well, She who Must be Obeyed; declared, I had to get some work done on the 'vette before I get to race the SR this season. I've done some and will share what and where I am on it.

WHEELS AND TIRES:
I was using an old set of 17" wheels for all the build. Don't like the huge backspace and wanted to swap out for something else. Cost a big factor, but was looking real close at some custom mini-lite style in a large diameter. In 12 inch width, they were under 500 each.

Also looked real close at the Wide-5 wheels. Liked the approach but only available in 15" - good choice in widths and backspace though.

For tires I kept looking at the used Race Tires and was about to go with 15 inch Formula A tires, 10" front and 12 rears. Damnit. The Wide 5s were not available until late summer. CRAP.

Did the look at Aero/Basset/Bart/etc for Circle track rims and found that Speedway had a special going on their 15x10s for $50 each. DEAL.

But What tires?

Back to JB the used tire king, and I scored a set of 100% Perelli P-zeros in 265/60/15, under 100 each.


(lettering on my set is Yellow - DH model)
All excited we got them loaded on the rims and came home to mount.

More to follow...

I'm such a tease.

Cheers - Jim

 

[mfain]

Jim,

Glad to see you back on it. Now, let's see some progress!!

Pappy

 

[phantomjock]

Pappy asked for more - in Vegas and Phoenix he gets a "dry heat." Not so here in the Panhandle. So, I'm at it but slow. Some of this work was done a few days, well maybe a week ago, but need to get the backlog of corresponding done.

IT WAS A BIG DAY! The tires and wheels finally came in and got mounted. The old rims (bent and pretty messed up) were off to the scrapyard. Now, with the wheels and tires mounted up I was able to put the car (now looking very much like an oversized Go-Kart) finally on the ground. Off the jack-stands where it has resided for the past several years.

While at it, I borrowed my buddy's racing scales to take some measurements, and preliminarily scale the chassis. I weighed the setup - READY FOR THIS? 1879#. No body (birdcage etc.), no interior, no fluids, no driver, radiator etc - but under 1900! Awesome. Front/rear split was 45% front, 55% rear. Maybe went a bit over in moving the engine so far aft? Ahh well. [Add a bigger splitter maybe.]

I really wanted/needed to measure the rake. I had become very concerned that having raised the diff 2 inches, I might have a reverse rake problem, you know - "nose-high." That put me on the quest for drop spindle options. I'll cut to the chase, I opted to go with C7 front uprights over the options. When compared to the C3 spindle, the C7 builds in quite a bit of "drop." But that comes with its own challenges on 15 inch wheels - more on that later (not just mounting brakes.) Rake was good as a Go-Kart. 1 inch nose down, and more available by bumping rear ride height on the springs - maybe.


Then we loaded up the body. Had to get the scales back so missed a more complete weight check - bummer. Now the bad news. I misread the diameter of te wheel tire combo, and at nearly 2 inches larger than the 17s. So when we mounted the body, it was sitting on the tires. ARGHHH! Ain’t hot-rodding fun?!! That will make it very difficult to move. We some 2x4s placed on the chassis made it marginally "pushable." Just needed to get it out of the garage and outside. Eventually it would go onto the trailer, so I could swap it with the SR to get it race ready for this season - or what's left of it.


and the front too:



This would require some heavy thinking, cutting and maybe some fiberglass. Put the final resolution on hold for a few days. One option is build a set of molds like the Greenwood slab-side extended-box rear quarters. I do have the mold I made for the flares in the attic so that is one option. Another, Just cut-and-run, but then I'll have to dodge the coppers. One objective is make it street legal - which is pretty easy here in FL.

I'll work on something else for a bit. More will follow - honest. Maybe tomorrow.

Cheers - Jim

 

[mfain]

looking good! Kind-of looks like a Cheetah in that last photo.

Pappy

 

[rtj]

I went to the used tire site (I think). Did you have to contact them for a list of available tires? Not much listed, maybe I had wrong site. If this is the right site, I may ping them.

https://www.jbracingtires.net/