UAW wages to blame?

[mrvette]

Never mind Gene,you can't or won't understand :suicide:

OK, I"ll ship you some anti freeze and oil for use as weed killers....


:harhar:

 

[big2bird]

Kind of reminds me of a time back in the '70's a company I worked for wanted to set up a booth at a computer convention downtown N.Y. Simple enough, no? We were advised that in order to do so, we had to have union trucks deliver the equipment, union guys unload the stuff, union electricians plug in the lights and equipment. Then when the convention was over...do it all over again, using only union workers. Jeez...no wonder the unions are in demise. Can't take a piss without a union worker holding your wiener.:suicide:

Yep, no exaggeration, $200 to plug a plug into a socket. No kidding.

That is a oversimplified. This is what I do for a living now. If you were to see and understand what is involved in that statement, you might think it a bargain.
(Lamps go in sockets, plugs go into receptacles)

 

[Jsup]

Kind of reminds me of a time back in the '70's a company I worked for wanted to set up a booth at a computer convention downtown N.Y. Simple enough, no? We were advised that in order to do so, we had to have union trucks deliver the equipment, union guys unload the stuff, union electricians plug in the lights and equipment. Then when the convention was over...do it all over again, using only union workers. Jeez...no wonder the unions are in demise. Can't take a piss without a union worker holding your wiener.:suicide:

Yep, no exaggeration, $200 to plug a plug into a socket. No kidding.

That is a oversimplified. This is what I do for a living now. If you were to see and understand what is involved in that statement, you might think it a bargain.
(Lamps go in sockets, plugs go into receptacles)

Now, I have run my share of tradeshows around the country, and I can say with complete certainty that union shows are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive.

$200 to plug in a RECPICAL is not hyperbole.

In fact, here's one show I went to. A guy would walk down the line and lay the quad box out, the next guy would follow him to plug in, and the third guy would plug into the quad box. No kidding.

Question.

I had a 20 foot sheetrock wall built, with 1 door in it. Inside, to finish off a three sided area as a conference room.

Union built. Wanna guess how much?

20 foot wall, one door, two sides sheetrock. Metal studs, Spackled and painted.

Estimate?

 

[mrvette]

Kind of reminds me of a time back in the '70's a company I worked for wanted to set up a booth at a computer convention downtown N.Y. Simple enough, no? We were advised that in order to do so, we had to have union trucks deliver the equipment, union guys unload the stuff, union electricians plug in the lights and equipment. Then when the convention was over...do it all over again, using only union workers. Jeez...no wonder the unions are in demise. Can't take a piss without a union worker holding your wiener.:suicide:

Yep, no exaggeration, $200 to plug a plug into a socket. No kidding.

That is a oversimplified. This is what I do for a living now. If you were to see and understand what is involved in that statement, you might think it a bargain.
(Lamps go in sockets, plugs go into receptacles)

Now, I have run my share of tradeshows around the country, and I can say with complete certainty that union shows are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive.

$200 to plug in a RECPICAL is not hyperbole.

In fact, here's one show I went to. A guy would walk down the line and lay the quad box out, the next guy would follow him to plug in, and the third guy would plug into the quad box. No kidding.

Question.

I had a 20 foot sheetrock wall built, with 1 door in it. Inside, to finish off a three sided area as a conference room.

Union built. Wanna guess how much?

20 foot wall, one door, two sides sheetrock. Metal studs, Spackled and painted.

Estimate?

INsufficiant information....logistics, time frame, quality standard, WHEN was it done...NOW vs 20 years ago, area of the country....what sort of door, any ceiling?? window?? how many coats of paint??? need forced drying because it's a one day time frame???

:nuts:

 

[Jsup]

Kind of reminds me of a time back in the '70's a company I worked for wanted to set up a booth at a computer convention downtown N.Y. Simple enough, no? We were advised that in order to do so, we had to have union trucks deliver the equipment, union guys unload the stuff, union electricians plug in the lights and equipment. Then when the convention was over...do it all over again, using only union workers. Jeez...no wonder the unions are in demise. Can't take a piss without a union worker holding your wiener.:suicide:

Yep, no exaggeration, $200 to plug a plug into a socket. No kidding.

That is a oversimplified. This is what I do for a living now. If you were to see and understand what is involved in that statement, you might think it a bargain.
(Lamps go in sockets, plugs go into receptacles)

Now, I have run my share of tradeshows around the country, and I can say with complete certainty that union shows are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive.

$200 to plug in a RECPICAL is not hyperbole.

In fact, here's one show I went to. A guy would walk down the line and lay the quad box out, the next guy would follow him to plug in, and the third guy would plug into the quad box. No kidding.

Question.

I had a 20 foot sheetrock wall built, with 1 door in it. Inside, to finish off a three sided area as a conference room.

Union built. Wanna guess how much?

20 foot wall, one door, two sides sheetrock. Metal studs, Spackled and painted.

Estimate?

INsufficiant information....logistics, time frame, quality standard, WHEN was it done...NOW vs 20 years ago, area of the country....what sort of door, any ceiling?? window?? how many coats of paint??? need forced drying because it's a one day time frame???

:nuts:

No windows. Solid wood door and non locking door knob. No ceiling. 2 coats of paint. Timeframe was dictated by them. Started when they felt like, and finished when they finished, which was two weeks start to finish. You know you and I could knock it out in a day or two Gene. They had three people there at all times, two working. Oh, and some sort of rubber base cove if I didn't mention.

Area of the country......7th Ave, NYC off of 54th street, but Columbus circle.

This was 2005.

 

[JPhil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr15....microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7GPC

http://video.google.com/videosearch...sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#

You think this is nutcase conspiracy?



New: February 2003: corporation sues government over water at secret World Bank tribunal


Economy and Financial Affairs /Water & Oceans - Fri Feb 14 2003


The Bechtel Corporation was handed a powerful victory when a secretive trade court announced that it would not allow the public or media to participate in or even witness proceedings in which Bechtel is suing the people of Bolivia for $25 million.

Secretive World Bank Tribunal bans public and media participation in Bechtel lawsuit over access to water: citizens excluded from $25 million suit against Bolivia for company's failed water privatization scheme

Washington, DC- The Bechtel Corporation was handed a powerful victory last week, when a secretive trade court announced that it would not allow the public or media to participate in or even witness proceedings in which Bechtel is suing the people of Bolivia for $25 million. Aguas del Tunari, a subsidiary of the California-based engineering giant, is suing South America's poorest nation over the company's failed effort to take over the public water system of Bolivia's third largest city, Cochabamba.

In the late 1990s the World Bank forced Bolivia to privatize the public water system of its third-largest city, Cochabamba, by threatening to withhold debt relief and other development assistance. In 1999, in a process with just one bidder, Bechtel, the California-based engineering giant, was granted a 40-year lease to take over Cochabamba's water, through a subsidiary the corporation formed for just that purpose ("Aguas del Tunari").

Within weeks of taking over the water system, Aguas del Tunari imposed huge rate hikes on local water users. Families living on the local minimum wage of $60 per month were billed up to 25 percent of their monthly income. The rate hikes sparked massive citywide protests that the Bolivian government sought to end by declaring a state of martial law and deploying thousands of soldiers and police. More than a hundred people were injured and one 17-year-old boy was killed. In April 2000, as anti-Bechtel protests continued to grow, the company's managers abandoned the project.

Aguas del Tunari filed the legal action against Bolivia last November, demanding compensation of $25 million, a figure that represents far more than the company's investment in the few months it operated in Bolivia.

Although Bechtel is a U.S. corporation, its subsidiary recently established a presence in the Netherlands in order to make use of the treaty.

The rules in the Dutch-Bolivian treaty are similar to those in NAFTA and the proposed Free Trade Area of the Americas.


for full text see:
http://www.choike.org/nuevo_eng/informes/973.html


for more about Naomi Kline & 'The Shock Doctrine' see:
http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine/the-book

and:
http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine

 

[DeeVeeEight]

Gene is obviously insane and he lives in Florida. Does that mean everyone who lives in Florida is insane?

cluck cluck y'all

:rofl::rofl: That is way to funny :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

UHH, I not seen the first HINT of snow in 12 years now....

so just WHO is nutz???? :bullshit::lol:

I take my palm trees and tropical plants....just ask TimAT....

:stirpot:

Yeah, but them friggin palmetto bugs crawlin up the wall make me shudder - brrrrrrrrr......

 

[big_G]

$21,598.25

 

[mrvette]

Yep, no exaggeration, $200 to plug a plug into a socket. No kidding.

That is a oversimplified. This is what I do for a living now. If you were to see and understand what is involved in that statement, you might think it a bargain.
(Lamps go in sockets, plugs go into receptacles)

Now, I have run my share of tradeshows around the country, and I can say with complete certainty that union shows are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive.

$200 to plug in a RECPICAL is not hyperbole.

In fact, here's one show I went to. A guy would walk down the line and lay the quad box out, the next guy would follow him to plug in, and the third guy would plug into the quad box. No kidding.

Question.

I had a 20 foot sheetrock wall built, with 1 door in it. Inside, to finish off a three sided area as a conference room.

Union built. Wanna guess how much?

20 foot wall, one door, two sides sheetrock. Metal studs, Spackled and painted.

Estimate?

INsufficiant information....logistics, time frame, quality standard, WHEN was it done...NOW vs 20 years ago, area of the country....what sort of door, any ceiling?? window?? how many coats of paint??? need forced drying because it's a one day time frame???

:nuts:

No windows. Solid wood door and non locking door knob. No ceiling. 2 coats of paint. Timeframe was dictated by them. Started when they felt like, and finished when they finished, which was two weeks start to finish. You know you and I could knock it out in a day or two Gene. They had three people there at all times, two working. Oh, and some sort of rubber base cove if I didn't mention.

Area of the country......7th Ave, NYC off of 54th street, but Columbus circle.

This was 2005.

'05, NYC 2 WEEKS??? 3 guise??

Jeezus....I going to guess at ten grand.....materials are nothing...even NYC at 500 bux MAX shit, I could drive them from Maryland for that and be happy....it maybe more even....

then again the poor bastards even trying to park their trucks near there are paying some ten grand a day in fees....

tell you ONE thing, I turned down any further kitchen work in one high rise off Mass ave NW Wash DC on account of the management was so stupid they hassled my ass to death.....I had THREE other clients from that high rise call me for doing their kitchens....but I had to tell them I would not take the job at twice the rate, it was THAT bad...eff 'em....

the one job I did do was a fresh lead...turned out the chick was a TV personality/reporter....woopie doo....nothing major, just local...

2 weeks, Bullshit little EVA.....45 minit set compound first day, 20 minit second day, first coat paint....return next day final coats...maybe two of them depending on color....

rocket science....labor problem,...too many on welfare, no workers, typical NYC what else is new???

 

[Jsup]

That is a oversimplified. This is what I do for a living now. If you were to see and understand what is involved in that statement, you might think it a bargain.
(Lamps go in sockets, plugs go into receptacles)

Now, I have run my share of tradeshows around the country, and I can say with complete certainty that union shows are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive.

$200 to plug in a RECPICAL is not hyperbole.

In fact, here's one show I went to. A guy would walk down the line and lay the quad box out, the next guy would follow him to plug in, and the third guy would plug into the quad box. No kidding.

Question.

I had a 20 foot sheetrock wall built, with 1 door in it. Inside, to finish off a three sided area as a conference room.

Union built. Wanna guess how much?

20 foot wall, one door, two sides sheetrock. Metal studs, Spackled and painted.

Estimate?

INsufficiant information....logistics, time frame, quality standard, WHEN was it done...NOW vs 20 years ago, area of the country....what sort of door, any ceiling?? window?? how many coats of paint??? need forced drying because it's a one day time frame???

:nuts:

No windows. Solid wood door and non locking door knob. No ceiling. 2 coats of paint. Timeframe was dictated by them. Started when they felt like, and finished when they finished, which was two weeks start to finish. You know you and I could knock it out in a day or two Gene. They had three people there at all times, two working. Oh, and some sort of rubber base cove if I didn't mention.

Area of the country......7th Ave, NYC off of 54th street, but Columbus circle.

This was 2005.

'05, NYC 2 WEEKS??? 3 guise??

Jeezus....I going to guess at ten grand.....materials are nothing...even NYC at 500 bux MAX shit, I could drive them from Maryland for that and be happy....it maybe more even....

then again the poor bastards even trying to park their trucks near there are paying some ten grand a day in fees....

tell you ONE thing, I turned down any further kitchen work in one high rise off Mass ave NW Wash DC on account of the management was so stupid they hassled my ass to death.....I had THREE other clients from that high rise call me for doing their kitchens....but I had to tell them I would not take the job at twice the rate, it was THAT bad...eff 'em....

the one job I did do was a fresh lead...turned out the chick was a TV personality/reporter....woopie doo....nothing major, just local...

2 weeks, Bullshit little EVA.....45 minit set compound first day, 20 minit second day, first coat paint....return next day final coats...maybe two of them depending on color....

rocket science....labor problem,...too many on welfare, no workers, typical NYC what else is new???

You've heard this before I take it. Yep, $10K....ridiculous isn't it? 20 foot of wall. Probably $1500 tops in material, and four man days of labor.

 

[big2bird]

Kind of reminds me of a time back in the '70's a company I worked for wanted to set up a booth at a computer convention downtown N.Y. Simple enough, no? We were advised that in order to do so, we had to have union trucks deliver the equipment, union guys unload the stuff, union electricians plug in the lights and equipment. Then when the convention was over...do it all over again, using only union workers. Jeez...no wonder the unions are in demise. Can't take a piss without a union worker holding your wiener.:suicide:

Yep, no exaggeration, $200 to plug a plug into a socket. No kidding.

That is a oversimplified. This is what I do for a living now. If you were to see and understand what is involved in that statement, you might think it a bargain.
(Lamps go in sockets, plugs go into receptacles)

Now, I have run my share of tradeshows around the country, and I can say with complete certainty that union shows are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive.

$200 to plug in a RECPICAL is not hyperbole.

Let me explain. At the Anaheim Convention center, to install ONE CIRCUIT,
I have to go into the catwalk, find 5 x10' 4/0 jumpers, plug in a 200 amp feeder panel into the switch gear, and test it. Then, lay out a 5 conductor "6 cord to a branch circuit panel, then test it. THEN, I have to take a scissor lift, drop a 100' 5 conductor #12 to the booth line, then go to the floor and install a booth stringer, then test it.
NOW, that price includes install, rental of all equipment, standby labor during the show, ELECTRCITY purchased from the convention center, and REMOVAL after the show.
$200 still sound cheap? You try and do it for that.
I'ts NOT just plugging in a box.

 

[Jsup]

Let me explain. At the Anaheim Convention center, to install ONE CIRCUIT,
I have to go into the catwalk, find 5 x10' 4/0 jumpers, plug in a 200 amp feeder panel into the switch gear, and test it. Then, lay out a 5 conductor "6 cord to a branch circuit panel, then test it. THEN, I have to take a scissor lift, drop a 100' 5 conductor #12 to the booth line, then go to the floor and install a booth stringer, then test it.
NOW, that price includes install, rental of all equipment, standby labor during the show, ELECTRCITY purchased from the convention center, and REMOVAL after the show.
$200 still sound cheap? You try and do it for that.
I'ts NOT just plugging in a box.

Oh no, that's $750 in Anaheim, last time I was there in 2007.

The $200, per booth, is to take my booth lights and plug them into all that. Anaheim doesn't do that, the Javitz does, as do other venues.

 

[mrvette]

Yep, no exaggeration, $200 to plug a plug into a socket. No kidding.

That is a oversimplified. This is what I do for a living now. If you were to see and understand what is involved in that statement, you might think it a bargain.
(Lamps go in sockets, plugs go into receptacles)

Now, I have run my share of tradeshows around the country, and I can say with complete certainty that union shows are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive.

$200 to plug in a RECPICAL is not hyperbole.

Let me explain. At the Anaheim Convention center, to install ONE CIRCUIT,
I have to go into the catwalk, find 5 x10' 4/0 jumpers, plug in a 200 amp feeder panel into the switch gear, and test it. Then, lay out a 5 conductor "6 cord to a branch circuit panel, then test it. THEN, I have to take a scissor lift, drop a 100' 5 conductor #12 to the booth line, then go to the floor and install a booth stringer, then test it.
NOW, that price includes install, rental of all equipment, standby labor during the show, ELECTRCITY purchased from the convention center, and REMOVAL after the show.
$200 still sound cheap? You try and do it for that.
I'ts NOT just plugging in a box.

I hear you bird, no issue with your side .....but to Jsup there, NO I have not heard that story before, not that I recall anyway, but I have done trade shows from the showman's standpoint, seen the logistics, and know about NYC being so totally overpriced....so in fact my stab at it put a ~50% profit margin in there for who/what ever did the job.....and you gotta be kidding me that I was right on.....I maybe been around the horn a few times on a small boat, and know the compass, but to set that accurate a course to hit the harbor??? doubtful....you gotta be kidding.....

:surrender:

 

[big_G]

From 2003...http://www.buildingc3.com/doc.asp?id=2836

 

[Jsup]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr15....microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7GPC

http://video.google.com/videosearch...sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#

You think this is nutcase conspiracy?



New: February 2003: corporation sues government over water at secret World Bank tribunal


Economy and Financial Affairs /Water & Oceans - Fri Feb 14 2003


The Bechtel Corporation was handed a powerful victory when a secretive trade court announced that it would not allow the public or media to participate in or even witness proceedings in which Bechtel is suing the people of Bolivia for $25 million.

Secretive World Bank Tribunal bans public and media participation in Bechtel lawsuit over access to water: citizens excluded from $25 million suit against Bolivia for company's failed water privatization scheme

Washington, DC- The Bechtel Corporation was handed a powerful victory last week, when a secretive trade court announced that it would not allow the public or media to participate in or even witness proceedings in which Bechtel is suing the people of Bolivia for $25 million. Aguas del Tunari, a subsidiary of the California-based engineering giant, is suing South America's poorest nation over the company's failed effort to take over the public water system of Bolivia's third largest city, Cochabamba.

In the late 1990s the World Bank forced Bolivia to privatize the public water system of its third-largest city, Cochabamba, by threatening to withhold debt relief and other development assistance. In 1999, in a process with just one bidder, Bechtel, the California-based engineering giant, was granted a 40-year lease to take over Cochabamba's water, through a subsidiary the corporation formed for just that purpose ("Aguas del Tunari").

Within weeks of taking over the water system, Aguas del Tunari imposed huge rate hikes on local water users. Families living on the local minimum wage of $60 per month were billed up to 25 percent of their monthly income. The rate hikes sparked massive citywide protests that the Bolivian government sought to end by declaring a state of martial law and deploying thousands of soldiers and police. More than a hundred people were injured and one 17-year-old boy was killed. In April 2000, as anti-Bechtel protests continued to grow, the company's managers abandoned the project.

Aguas del Tunari filed the legal action against Bolivia last November, demanding compensation of $25 million, a figure that represents far more than the company's investment in the few months it operated in Bolivia.

Although Bechtel is a U.S. corporation, its subsidiary recently established a presence in the Netherlands in order to make use of the treaty.

The rules in the Dutch-Bolivian treaty are similar to those in NAFTA and the proposed Free Trade Area of the Americas.


for full text see:
http://www.choike.org/nuevo_eng/informes/973.html


for more about Naomi Kline & 'The Shock Doctrine' see:
http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine/the-book

and:
http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine

You like conspiracy's here's one. Not so sure what they have to do with the original post, but WTF we're on conspiracy now....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCUe61hmqsA[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amGK76g4xyk[/ame]

 

[JPhil]

So do you believe any of it? Even if you think only 1% of all the conspiracy theories have only 1% of truth to them at all, you should be scared. Or at least thoughtful.
To be honest, I enjoy the tantalization of many of them. I give most about a .5% rating, but my favorites I allow up to a 15 or 20% rating. That's still enough to make me one paranoid mofo.
I have not heard of 'Agenda 21' and 'Codex Alimentarius" but I will not deny the possibility of their existance-- or perhaps I should say, their 'agenda' (After all, the Mafia does not exist legally at all, does it?). I do believe flouridation is an 'issue' & Genetically Modified Crops are designed ONLY for corporate domination of the world. GMC I give a 98% rating as to the pure corporate evil of it. Monsanto dominates & terrorizes the local agrarian economy here.

 

[big2bird]

From 2003...http://www.buildingc3.com/doc.asp?id=2836

5 years later, I do not make that much.:crap:
When you compare it to a factory worker for example, that does get sick days, vacation days, personal days, and other benies that we do NOT get, we make just a tad more, and have a MUCH higher injury/death rate.:clobbered:
Apples and oranges.

 

[big2bird]

Let me explain. At the Anaheim Convention center, to install ONE CIRCUIT,
I have to go into the catwalk, find 5 x10' 4/0 jumpers, plug in a 200 amp feeder panel into the switch gear, and test it. Then, lay out a 5 conductor "6 cord to a branch circuit panel, then test it. THEN, I have to take a scissor lift, drop a 100' 5 conductor #12 to the booth line, then go to the floor and install a booth stringer, then test it.
NOW, that price includes install, rental of all equipment, standby labor during the show, ELECTRCITY purchased from the convention center, and REMOVAL after the show.
$200 still sound cheap? You try and do it for that.
I'ts NOT just plugging in a box.

Oh no, that's $750 in Anaheim, last time I was there in 2007.


The $200, per booth, is to take my booth lights and plug them into all that. Anaheim doesn't do that, the Javitz does, as do other venues.

Charges vary per show, length of show, labor involved, etc. The convention center also gets it's cut. You KNOW that trade show real estate is "Market Value."
PM me what show/vender you are. We may have even met.LOL

 

[SmokinBBC]

Maybe a little perspective on autoworkers that are non-union.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28214869/

 

[big2bird]

Maybe a little perspective on autoworkers that are non-union.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28214869/

I read that. Thank you. Two thoughts.
1)That last couple has a higher standard of living than me.
2)If it were not for the union, they would not be making what they do.