Weird Tuning Issue

[Jsup]

I think what I am going to do is buy an Ostrich, there's a Bluetooth version that is currently available.

With that, I am going to also pick up Tuner Cat, or Tuner Pro RT to tune, I will leave the Ostrich hooked up and run the car off it.

Finally I'm going to pick up Datamaster or similar program to run logs.

I'm going to learn this stuff myself. And continue to work with Greg.

Anyone have any preference on software? Tuner Cat? Tuner Pro? Data Master? Scan Pro? what do you think?

Jsup, Since you are committed to the GM stock computer, I think you are on the right track with the Ostrich. That should give you alot of the capability you are going to need. I used Tuner Pro, and Scanner Pro on my GM MEFI ECU on Ramjet before going to the Gen 7. I thought it was a good choice and the price is right.

Bullshark

Thanks. I'll do that. Everyone I talk to that actually took the time to learn the stock ECU, is telling me that there is no good reason to go to any aftermarket ECU for my application. They all independently tell me the same thing, the GM ECU is more detailed and more refined for my application.

They do admit that it is more complex than aftermarket, but if I take the time to learn it, I will be better off in the long run. I spoke to six or seven people independently and got the same conclusion. FWIW, I didn't ask that question, I simply opened the door by saying "I may have to go aftermarket" and let them answer.

 

[mrvette]

I think what I am going to do is buy an Ostrich, there's a Bluetooth version that is currently available.

With that, I am going to also pick up Tuner Cat, or Tuner Pro RT to tune, I will leave the Ostrich hooked up and run the car off it.

Finally I'm going to pick up Datamaster or similar program to run logs.

I'm going to learn this stuff myself. And continue to work with Greg.

Anyone have any preference on software? Tuner Cat? Tuner Pro? Data Master? Scan Pro? what do you think?

Jsup, Since you are committed to the GM stock computer, I think you are on the right track with the Ostrich. That should give you alot of the capability you are going to need. I used Tuner Pro, and Scanner Pro on my GM MEFI ECU on Ramjet before going to the Gen 7. I thought it was a good choice and the price is right.

Bullshark

Thanks. I'll do that. Everyone I talk to that actually took the time to learn the stock ECU, is telling me that there is no good reason to go to any aftermarket ECU for my application. They all independently tell me the same thing, the GM ECU is more detailed and more refined for my application.

They do admit that it is more complex than aftermarket, but if I take the time to learn it, I will be better off in the long run. I spoke to six or seven people independently and got the same conclusion. FWIW, I didn't ask that question, I simply opened the door by saying "I may have to go aftermarket" and let them answer.

I went aftermarket with the Mega Squirt system, and had nothing but troubles with it....maybe have posted that already....it was on my end with the gear and inability to cope with the programming....

however, now that the car is running well, I"m tempted to find out about these aftermarket, later model .commm programs that maybe wife's laptop can be used with her USB connecter and some how I can get into reprograming the chips also....I understand there are newer chips out now that we just rehit with the new tables, and dont have to bother with the old UV eraser shit.....

it's that large chip in the calpak....problem is then to be cutting out chips and soldering in sockets just to change the chips around....lotsa hardware mods just to be able to do the software.....I have no incentive to do this now, as the car is running good....the old adage...if it's not broke don't fix it, type shit....

:rofl::3rd:

 

[Jsup]

I understand there are newer chips out now that we just rehit with the new tables, and dont have to bother with the old UV eraser shit.....

it's that large chip in the calpak....problem is then to be cutting out chips and soldering in sockets just to change the chips around....lotsa hardware mods just to be able to do the software.....I have no incentive to do this now, as the car is running good....the old adage...if it's not broke don't fix it, type shit....

:rofl::3rd:

That's why I'm going with the Bluetooth Ostrich. You can run the car off the Ostrich and have your laptop make changes real time wirelessly without having to hook it up every time or burn chips.

 

[mrvette]

I understand there are newer chips out now that we just rehit with the new tables, and dont have to bother with the old UV eraser shit.....

it's that large chip in the calpak....problem is then to be cutting out chips and soldering in sockets just to change the chips around....lotsa hardware mods just to be able to do the software.....I have no incentive to do this now, as the car is running good....the old adage...if it's not broke don't fix it, type shit....

:rofl::3rd:

That's why I'm going with the Bluetooth Ostrich. You can run the car off the Ostrich and have your laptop make changes real time wirelessly without having to hook it up every time or burn chips.

When you get smart about that, or at least STARTED, run a thread about it, curious as to what you find, and how....

:bonkers::waxer:

 

[Jsup]

I understand there are newer chips out now that we just rehit with the new tables, and dont have to bother with the old UV eraser shit.....

it's that large chip in the calpak....problem is then to be cutting out chips and soldering in sockets just to change the chips around....lotsa hardware mods just to be able to do the software.....I have no incentive to do this now, as the car is running good....the old adage...if it's not broke don't fix it, type shit....

:rofl::3rd:

That's why I'm going with the Bluetooth Ostrich. You can run the car off the Ostrich and have your laptop make changes real time wirelessly without having to hook it up every time or burn chips.

When you get smart about that, or at least STARTED, run a thread about it, curious as to what you find, and how....

:bonkers::waxer:

will do. I'll post pics. The mechanical setup is easy, the logical set up will take some time. Not to sound like a kid just learning how to tie his shoes, I'll post what I learn, when I learn it.

Tomorrow I'm going to pick up one of these:
http://microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0287920

I like this one because it doesn't stick out too far. I don't like the USB devices that stick out too far, I'm afraid to break them off.

Do you really want a blow by blow? I mean who wants to hear me say "HEY, THE SKY IS BLUE" I'm a novice at best and much of what I post will probably be very elementary.

 

[Bullshark]

Jsup, so what did you decide on wrt wideband O2 capability to go along with the Ostrich emulation? Now that I think about it, it was the Roadrunner ECU that I was talking about that interfaced the UEGO by conditioning the 0-5v UEGO signal down to the 0-1v input needed.

Bullshark

 

[Jsup]

Jsup, so what did you decide on wrt wideband O2 capability to go along with the Ostrich emulation?

Bullshark

Funny you should ask, I'm looking for that right now.

I'm considering doing a guage pod on the A piller. Personally, I hate how they look, but I don't know of another neater solution.

http://www.jegs.com/p/AEM/761747/10002/-1

What do you suggest? Price is a factor here.

A three gauge pod will do AFR gauge, trans temp, and fuel pressure I'm thinking.

 

[Jsup]

Bullshark, how would you suggest I verify that my VE tables is correct? I understand there's a relationship between vacuumm and VE.

 

[Bullshark]

This is where the rubber meets the road, and is one of the reasons I opted for aftermarket. Basically, you will need to use Scanner Pro and monitor (data log) the various parameters needed to evaluate the performance of your configuration, including the UEGO A/F status. (i.e. A/F vs rpm vs map) for example. I myself have not done this with the sock GM setups. Innovation sells the LM-3 which is a data logger that interfaces real time with the other needed parameters. After evaluating the A/F performance wrt these other parameters at each point (cell) in the map, you can real time modify the VE table via your ostrich emulation. Your tuner should be able to help you setup this capability.

 

[Jsup]

Just ordered the Ostrich, Tuner Pro RT, and the bluetooth adapter for my PC.

Should be about a week before I hook it up.

Scanner pro will be fully integrated to Tuner Pro RT in about two weeks.

Bullshark, any suggestions how to get the VE right?

I was given this advice:

You want to look at the BLMs and note where they are on a
MAP v RPM basis. If the BLM is at 120 for example at 2000rpm x 40kPa,
then the adjustment you make to that cell in the VE table is
120/128 = .9375 of the value currently in the VE table in that cell. This will reduce the amount of fuel at this point of the fuel map. If its lean, ie BLM is 135, divide by 128 and multiply the VE value in that particular cell. You'll find that it will need to be done a number of times because the relationship between VE and BLM is not totally linear. MAP values modify the Pulsewidth.
That means the pulsewidth will be larger or smaller as a product of MAP.
A VE value of 53%, for example, will not deliver the same amount of fuel.

 

[mrvette]

Just ordered the Ostrich, Tuner Pro RT, and the bluetooth adapter for my PC.

Should be about a week before I hook it up.

Scanner pro will be fully integrated to Tuner Pro RT in about two weeks.

:yahoo::bonkers::fishing:

 

[Bullshark]

I was given this advice:

You want to look at the BLMs and note where they are on a
MAP v RPM basis. If the BLM is at 120 for example at 2000rpm x 40kPa,
then the adjustment you make to that cell in the VE table is
120/128 = .9375 of the value currently in the VE table in that cell. This will reduce the amount of fuel at this point of the fuel map. If its lean, ie BLM is 135, divide by 128 and multiply the VE value in that particular cell. You'll find that it will need to be done a number of times because the relationship between VE and BLM is not totally linear. MAP values modify the Pulsewidth.
That means the pulsewidth will be larger or smaller as a product of MAP.
A VE value of 53%, for example, will not deliver the same amount of fuel.

Good advice Jsup, but what I was confused about was the fact that you indicated you had a discrepancy between what your wide-band O2 was telling you vs what the BLM numbers indicated. Made me wonder if you could trust the BLM.

You may want to dig into what the guys over on Code59.org are doing. If I understand correctly I think they have integrated the wide-band function into there bin file. That would give you a real time indication of A/F synchronized with the cell you are operating in. Not sure if you would have to scale the 0-5v signal down to 0-1v or not? I didn't digest it that far yet.
Looks like they have moved the O2 pinout to inputs that allow 0-5v. Excellent....so you could use a LC-1
:thumbs:
Bullshark

 

[corvettedave01]

Just a couple of comments to consider. I have a 427 sb with a bit more solid roller cam, but real similar combo with a FAST xfi and currently 48# injectors running at 43 psi. I'm running in bank to bank alph N mode atm.

1. When I was tuning mine, the wideband sensor got saturated at first and was reading a full point off the dyno wideband sensor, eventually got it down to a bit under a half point discrepency after running the motor cleaner for awhile. He also had it idling way too rich, so it kept messing with things. I've since got it idling at around 14.5:1 so it idles very clean, plugs are perfect.

2. I don't see how you can get that thing to idle clean running at 55 lbs of fp. I had to turn mine down from 50 to 43 to be able to control the injectors enough to get it to idle like I wanted.

 

[Jsup]

Just a couple of comments to consider. I have a 427 sb with a bit more solid roller cam, but real similar combo with a FAST xfi and currently 48# injectors running at 43 psi. I'm running in bank to bank alph N mode atm.

1. When I was tuning mine, the wideband sensor got saturated at first and was reading a full point off the dyno wideband sensor, eventually got it down to a bit under a half point discrepency after running the motor cleaner for awhile. He also had it idling way too rich, so it kept messing with things. I've since got it idling at around 14.5:1 so it idles very clean, plugs are perfect.

2. I don't see how you can get that thing to idle clean running at 55 lbs of fp. I had to turn mine down from 50 to 43 to be able to control the injectors enough to get it to idle like I wanted.

I'm going to turn down the FP, probably this afternoon.

Here's the idle, 900 RPMs:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw-PnNu7hXo[/ame]

I am

 

[mrvette]

Would you believe, there is NO sound from that video....my 'puter was working earlier today....dunno....

:gurney:

 

[Jsup]

Would you believe, there is NO sound from that video....my 'puter was working earlier today....dunno....

:gurney:

Works for me. Maybe it's your ears?

 

[mrvette]

Would you believe, there is NO sound from that video....my 'puter was working earlier today....dunno....

:gurney:

Works for me. Maybe it's your ears?

Eh?? nope.....I"m using firefox.... not important anyway....only one it's not making noise with though....wonder why.....:clobbered:

 

[Jsup]

Would you believe, there is NO sound from that video....my 'puter was working earlier today....dunno....

:gurney:

Works for me. Maybe it's your ears?

Eh?? nope.....I"m using firefox.... not important anyway....only one it's not making noise with though....wonder why.....:clobbered:

Try your mixer. Bottom right side click the speaker, see if it's on mute or make sure the volume is up on the video.

 

[mrvette]

Would you believe, there is NO sound from that video....my 'puter was working earlier today....dunno....

:gurney:

Works for me. Maybe it's your ears?

Eh?? nope.....I"m using firefox.... not important anyway....only one it's not making noise with though....wonder why.....:clobbered:

Try your mixer. Bottom right side click the speaker, see if it's on mute or make sure the volume is up on the video.

Yeh, sure enuff.....must have turned down the sound for some reason, and forgot about it...wonder why it remembers that?? seems it would open up again and play normally....but yes, the car sounds decent....like a cam should....

I assume you have the cats on it still?? I would like a louder system, but scared of the DRONE at 1800 rpm's....can't go that....

:clobbered:

 

[Jsup]

Would you believe, there is NO sound from that video....my 'puter was working earlier today....dunno....

:gurney:

Works for me. Maybe it's your ears?

Eh?? nope.....I"m using firefox.... not important anyway....only one it's not making noise with though....wonder why.....:clobbered:

Try your mixer. Bottom right side click the speaker, see if it's on mute or make sure the volume is up on the video.

Yeh, sure enuff.....must have turned down the sound for some reason, and forgot about it...wonder why it remembers that?? seems it would open up again and play normally....but yes, the car sounds decent....like a cam should....

I assume you have the cats on it still?? I would like a louder system, but scared of the DRONE at 1800 rpm's....can't go that....

:clobbered:

No cats. Had them cut out. They were causing a small issue of getting too hot and making smoke from melting the SMC. I figured pulling out the cats was better than burning down the car.