C3/4/5 frankenstein frame

[SuperBuickGuy]

amazing work :thumbs:

 

[vette427sbc]

Thank you all for the kind words! One of the reasons I like this forum is because people notice the detail and engineering side of a build... I feel like the modified car world looks over the small details that really make a car as a whole and only see that you have a supercharged LSx and air ride... :footmouth:

This is some really NICE WORK! I have a couple of quick questions:
1. How far aft do you reckon the engine is from stock? 12-13 inches maybe?
2. Who built the drive shaft? I'll need a shorty too as my engine is that far aft as well.
3. What "brand" is the steering unit? Looks like a short track unit? Speedway maybe the source?

On the steering - I like the position it is in too - well forward - I may copy as I'm having some shaft line up problems in the "stock" location. Can't see the front hubs - guess they are "reversed" to get the tie rods up front. Photos when you can - please.

Very sanitary looking chassis - really, really nice.

Cheers - Jim

Jim- The ONLY thing "stock" about this front clip is the engine location! I didnt want to have to cramp an already tight and hot cockpit with more engine setback in addition to the extra cage points going in... This is a street car, after all :surrender:

Hubs are NASCAR-esque with massive spindle pin and wide bearing spread. The spindle and steering arm are spec'd to my wheelbase for proper ackerman, tons of caster and zero scrub. I can tell you from pushing it around the parking lot with the roller wheels on it, it is noticeably better than a stock C3 in terms of turn in and tire slip angle. Excited to see what it does with 335's and 29* of steering angle on an autoX course.

The rack is from Sweet MFG. I think they are popular in the circle track crowd. Ive heard from multiple people that I will love the feel and feedback. We shall see! The steering arm is slugged to change position of the tierod for quicker or slower steering. I also had the motor mounts designed to hopefully give me a straight shot right to the column so I can use only 2 u-joints.

The driveshaft is just a shortened C4 aluminum shaft with 1310 Spicer solid joints. The C4 shaft is fairly thin wall so its pretty light and it seems like the C4 drag race guys put some good 60ft times down with the stock shaft. This one is shorter and I wont be doing any drag race launches with this car either. Fingers crossed, but I think Im going to implement a front and rear safety loop just in case...


Have you posted any pictures of your build lately? I feel like I would have noticed a 12" engine setback C3 corvette build!!

 

[phantomjock]

Chris -

Thanks for the info and great pics. Oh - Ron Sutton Parts -- good choice. I may have to go over and check those out.

Yeah - I thought that was a "Sweets-looking" steering rack. On my Grand-Am mod I "think" I can get by with 2 U joints - the headers are going to give me fits -- so to speak I bet.

Right now the car is covered in - the rest of life - but soon will be uncovered and work resumed. My engine placement looks very similar to yours - that is why I asked. My front pulley stack aligns aft of the front arms - as I see in your pics. AND, yes - it is in the cockpit!

When I get my CV axles back next week (hope and pray) I'll get it together and "scale" it without the body on. We'll know more then and I shoot some updates.

Thanks again for all those details.

Cheers - Jim

 

[SRountree]

Awesome work

 

[69427]

Looking good.

I've been trying to figure out if it might make sense to put a similar shaped/full length pan on my engine (I'm still running a wet sump). It would give a bit more clearance from the crank on the front half, and a bit more capacity, but I still haven't resolved all the slosh/trapdoor issue questions yet.

I would say if you don't need more capacity, then don't add it. It seems like you have your car dialed in pretty well... I'm surprised you don't have (need) an accusump... also, a quart of oil is a fair amount of weight!! Im thinking of running oil cooler-less in hopes that my added capacity and external oil storage away from the hot motor will stay reasonable during 20 minute track sessions. wishful thinking...

I have an Accusump that I've been kicking around putting in the car, but the packaging of the Accusump looks damn painful at the moment. And to complicate things, the clutch Z bar is right in the way of where the fittings would screw into the block.

 

[mfain]

Chris,

Beautiful work. The ABS unit mount looks very tidy! I don't know if you are following lateral-g, but Sutton is taking a real beating from one of his turn-key track warrior customers. They have only had the car on the track twice (at Thunder Hill), and it was quickest in TTU with only a few laps on it....but the customer is "very ill" and expected a completed, turn-key race car with no issues in 4 months build time.....not going to happen. They had a dry sump oil leak issue and some cooling problems with the 707 hp LS, which the customer did not appreciate so he started an all-out smear campaign. There may have been other personality issues (on one or both sides), but the Sutton-designed suspension was phenomenal. I don't know anybody who understands front suspension geometry better than Ron. I hope they get it worked out soon. BTW, that Sweet rack is the way to go and their customer service is great.

Pappy

 

[vette427sbc]

I've seen them mounted behind the gills in the fender... but that doesn't help with your Zbar issue... new lighter, relocated clutch linkage? Sounds like a good winter project to me!

Chris,

Beautiful work. The ABS unit mount looks very tidy! I don't know if you are following lateral-g, but Sutton is taking a real beating from one of his turn-key track warrior customers. They have only had the car on the track twice (at Thunder Hill), and it was quickest in TTU with only a few laps on it....but the customer is "very ill" and expected a completed, turn-key race car with no issues in 4 months build time.....not going to happen. They had a dry sump oil leak issue and some cooling problems with the 707 hp LS, which the customer did not appreciate so he started an all-out smear campaign. There may have been other personality issues (on one or both sides), but the Sutton-designed suspension was phenomenal. I don't know anybody who understands front suspension geometry better than Ron. I hope they get it worked out soon. BTW, that Sweet rack is the way to go and their customer service is great.

Pappy

I'm not on Lat-g... Was that Weld's mustang? I understand the urgency of getting some races in before he can't do it anymore but building that level of vehicle im surprised a 4 month timeline was even proposed as a possibility! i guess some people don't understand what building a 1 off race car really entails... Hell, how much money do you think GM spent on developing the c7Z? And even they messed up the cooling system when it was put on track duty. But from the discussions I've had with ron I'm fully confident that I'll have a chassis that will perform very well.
And thanks! I just hope I can get the ABS unit to work! It's low on my list of to-dos though... I imagine it will just be a heavy distribution block for a while

 

[mfain]

"I'm not on Lat-g... Was that Weld's mustang? I understand the urgency of getting some races in before he can't do it anymore but building that level of vehicle im surprised a 4 month timeline was even proposed as a possibility! i guess some people don't understand what building a 1 off race car really entails... Hell, how much money do you think GM spent on developing the c7Z? And even they messed up the cooling system when it was put on track duty. But from the discussions I've had with ron I'm fully confident that I'll have a chassis that will perform very well."

Yes, it was Weld's car. I just ordered (through Sutton) a Speedway Engineering step-up front sway bar to get the high rate I need.

Pappy

 

[69427]

"I'm not on Lat-g... Was that Weld's mustang? I understand the urgency of getting some races in before he can't do it anymore but building that level of vehicle im surprised a 4 month timeline was even proposed as a possibility! i guess some people don't understand what building a 1 off race car really entails... Hell, how much money do you think GM spent on developing the c7Z? And even they messed up the cooling system when it was put on track duty. But from the discussions I've had with ron I'm fully confident that I'll have a chassis that will perform very well."

Yes, it was Weld's car. I just ordered (through Sutton) a Speedway Engineering step-up front sway bar to get the high rate I need.

Pappy

Please pardon my ignorance here, but what's a "step-up" bar?

 

[mfain]

"I'm not on Lat-g... Was that Weld's mustang? I understand the urgency of getting some races in before he can't do it anymore but building that level of vehicle im surprised a 4 month timeline was even proposed as a possibility! i guess some people don't understand what building a 1 off race car really entails... Hell, how much money do you think GM spent on developing the c7Z? And even they messed up the cooling system when it was put on track duty. But from the discussions I've had with ron I'm fully confident that I'll have a chassis that will perform very well."

Yes, it was Weld's car. I just ordered (through Sutton) a Speedway Engineering step-up front sway bar to get the high rate I need.

Pappy

Please pardon my ignorance here, but what's a "step-up" bar?

It has 1 1/4 inch splined ends, but inside the bearing it steps up to, in my case, 1.45 inches to get a 2000# rate. A solid 1 1/4 inch bar would only give about 1300#. I am using a high travel, low roll philosophy so the bar had to be stiff.

Pappy

 

[vette427sbc]

Yes, it was Weld's car. I just ordered (through Sutton) a Speedway Engineering step-up front sway bar to get the high rate I need.

Pappy

Let me know when you get yours... I ordered my clip from Ron in December, received it february-ish and was told the speedway bars were backordered... I dont need it to continue working on the car so I havent been hounding him for it but if I had a completed car and was waiting on a bar Id be a little aggravated.

 

[vette427sbc]

Things got crowded on this side of the motor quick!







The scavenge-out doesnt have the internal spring in it yet so it looks a bit flat in these pics...
Both of the -12 lines coming through the motor mount will be getting a heat sleeve and a titanium heat shield to protect from the headers.
The pressure-out from the filter housing will go forward along the frame rail to the oil cooler, then back up the drivers side to go into the block.

 

[mfain]

Yes, it was Weld's car. I just ordered (through Sutton) a Speedway Engineering step-up front sway bar to get the high rate I need.

Pappy

Let me know when you get yours... I ordered my clip from Ron in December, received it february-ish and was told the speedway bars were backordered... I dont need it to continue working on the car so I havent been hounding him for it but if I had a completed car and was waiting on a bar Id be a little aggravated.

Got the sway bar - came as ordered. Ron said he got several custom bars in, so I suspect you probably got yours.

Pappy

 

[vette427sbc]

Got the sway bar - came as ordered. Ron said he got several custom bars in, so I suspect you probably got yours.

Pappy

It did come in, but as per the e-mail I got a few days ago its not looking good for Ron. A shame as I was really very happy with everything from him. Might have to see if I can privately contract him for suspension tuning/optimization once my car is more together...

 

[mfain]

Got the sway bar - came as ordered. Ron said he got several custom bars in, so I suspect you probably got yours.

Pappy

It did come in, but as per the e-mail I got a few days ago its not looking good for Ron. A shame as I was really very happy with everything from him. Might have to see if I can privately contract him for suspension tuning/optimization once my car is more together...

He told me he would work on suspension analysis through at least Dec.
The whole thing is a real shame, but that is the power of the internet.

Pappy

 

[Richard454]

Things got crowded on this side of the motor quick!


Both of the -12 lines coming through the motor mount will be getting a heat sleeve and a titanium heat shield to protect from the headers.
The pressure-out from the filter housing will go forward along the frame rail to the oil cooler, then back up the drivers side to go into the block.

Looks good!!!!

I ended up using Earl's flameguard- looks to be nice quality stuff-

The other thing I am trying out is Federal Mogul Thermflex "basalt socks" for the exhaust-

 

[69427]

Suspension and brakes are mostly done... Waiting on swaybars and the body to go on for the front coilover hoop. The transmission is getting a once over and maybe a few small upgrades; Now to pick out a drysump system for the 427

May I ask what material size/dimensions you have there on your lower A-arm crossmember? I suspect my crossmember is a bit overbuilt (novice overbuild syndrome), and I am considering doing some material removal on it over the winter for some weight savings.

 

[vette427sbc]

May I ask what material size/dimensions you have there on your lower A-arm crossmember? I suspect my crossmember is a bit overbuilt (novice overbuild syndrome), and I am considering doing some material removal on it over the winter for some weight savings.

The pivot point boxes are .25" plate... The x member is 1x3 square tube but Im not sure on the wall thickness.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

all I can say is I'll be treading a path that looks very similar to yours. So much so that I could be charged with plagiarism... most especially that cradle. With that said, there's only so many ways to skin a cat. Thanks for the inspiration.

 

[vette427sbc]

all I can say is I'll be treading a path that looks very similar to yours. So much so that I could be charged with plagiarism... most especially that cradle. With that said, there's only so many ways to skin a cat. Thanks for the inspiration.

Im flattered :loveletter:
Although I should say I didnt design the front frame rails, that was done by Ron Sutton and DMP fabrication. My ideas are from the ABS unit and rearward.