Mitt Romney

[Beagle 1]

Yes Gene. As long as someone gets killed, your happy.

We're not talking about killing more people, we're talking about finding out who is responsable for the people who were killed. FYI, alot of the aprox 2,000 easily converted to full auto assult rifles, have not been accounted for. They are still in Mexico. The death toll WILL rise.
There is alot of weird psycology here. Most of us will never know exactly what happened or why.
I "believe" that this was a failed attempt to revive gun control here in the US.
Someone came up with a scheme that would show that current gun laws are not strict enough and they didn't care about the collaterol damage, or the fact that it would be illegal. The end justifies the means? So, lets find out who is at the top of this. Shouldn't be too hard, we know who some of the lower level people are, so lets follow the trail, NOT try to impede the investigation!
Go back and say that BUsh did the same thing? Come on, not true, and irrelevent. THIS is here and now. Lets deal with it.

 

[big2bird]

Yes Gene. As long as someone gets killed, your happy.

We're not talking about killing more people, we're talking about finding out who is responsable for the people who were killed. FYI, alot of the aprox 2,000 easily converted to full auto assult rifles, have not been accounted for. They are still in Mexico. The death toll WILL rise.
There is alot of weird psycology here. Most of us will never know exactly what happened or why.
I "believe" that this was a failed attempt to revive gun control here in the US.
Someone came up with a scheme that would show that current gun laws are not strict enough and they didn't care about the collaterol damage, or the fact that it would be illegal. The end justifies the means? So, lets find out who is at the top of this. Shouldn't be too hard, we know who some of the lower level people are, so lets follow the trail, NOT try to impede the investigation!
Go back and say that BUsh did the same thing? Come on, not true, and irrelevent. THIS is here and now. Lets deal with it.

I may live in a cave. I really don't know anything about this Mexican killed, gun story dealy bop. Anyone have a link to bring me up to speed?

 

[Beagle 1]

U rite, and that's not 1/2 of it yet......course if this bastard wins, it's over, if he loses, MAYBE there will be trials, and I"d LOVE to see all this adm on a gallows....:bomb::clap:

Mayby, but probably not.
Blanket pardons will be issued on the last day in office, kind of like Arnold Schenager did for buddy's son who was convicted of murder here in Kalifornia. Real piece of work. Ran as a Republican, got elected, reverted back to a Democrat, and look at Kalifornia now.

 

[big2bird]

U rite, and that's not 1/2 of it yet......course if this bastard wins, it's over, if he loses, MAYBE there will be trials, and I"d LOVE to see all this adm on a gallows....:bomb::clap:

Mayby, but probably not.
Blanket pardons will be issued on the last day in office, kind of like Arnold Schenager did for buddy's son who was convicted of murder here in Kalifornia. Real piece of work. Ran as a Republican, got elected, reverted back to a Democrat, and look at Kalifornia now.

Yep . Recall of Gray Davis, blame Davis, elect Arnold, zero change.
I met Arnolds son at a show. Only guy that whined and had trouble paying his bill. Pure dick wad.

 

[Beagle 1]

I may live in a cave. I really don't know anything about this Mexican killed, gun story dealy bop. Anyone have a link to bring me up to speed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal
Fairly accurate account here.
This only came to light when a US border patrol agent was killed with one of the guns. The gov't then tried to procecute the gun shop who was directed by the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) to follow through on the sale of the guns, even after they reported it as a probable illegal sale (sales of multiple guns on numerous ocations [current gun laws at work here]). The procecution was dropped when the factual correspondance between the gun shop and the ATF was made available. I guess nobody cared as long as it was only Mexicans.

Bird, even if you don't agree with Fox news, you need to watch it or listen to Rush or Hannady, etc., just to get both sides of the story. The main stream media is pretty biased, and won't publish or will distort many issues, as is the case here.
Daryll Isa--US congressman from your neighbor city of San Diego, is leading the congressional investigation. You can also check his web site.

 

[mrvette]

Jeff is maybe ten years younger than me, and grew up looking at MSM, and so being out in the REAL country, not on top of the bullshit and lies like I was growing up....by pure happenstance......

He believes the MSM, but the truth of the matter is.....Glen Beck was correct, and so was Uncle Barry Goldwater, in '64......

Most folks don't want to believe about the PROGRESSIVE movement, and it's historical significance, much less be aware of it.....and I have to admit, as a child of the DC region, I never heard of the progressive movement either, it was NEVER touched on in history in HS or college far as I recall, maybe a forgettable mention....

BUT, after wondering for decades about why the R party always seemed to always compromise with the HARD LINE Do Mo Craps, and so this nation drifted to more socialism, as to just why the R party always gave in.....and so Beck told the truth for the first time, that it's because the Republicans are in fact dominated by the same sort of group that runs the DoMoCraps....

Ensuring a continued leftward drift, just a matter of speed, not direction....

funny how that crap never made the textbooks....yet another reason the US Dept of Education needs shut down cold and hard.....simply NO need for them, all they do is feed into more regulations.....and provide money for school buses.......:crap::shocking:

 

[turtlevette]

All this talk about communism, progressivism and Obama. Really not that much is different than the way things worked 10 or 20 years ago. I see a lot of fear here that is manufactured.

The europeans have gone "communist" and are much more "progressive", yet that area of the world is still a very good place to live with very high standards of living.

I think people are being brainwashed on the far right to the same extent that the left may be. There is some really crazy talk going on over on CF pollitics section.

But really a bunch of grumpy nutty old men who are really really scared.

 

[big2bird]

Jeff is maybe ten years younger than me, and grew up looking at MSM, and so being out in the REAL country, not on top of the bullshit and lies like I was growing up....by pure happenstance......

He believes the MSM, but the truth of the matter is.....Glen Beck was correct, and so was Uncle Barry Goldwater, in '64......

Most folks don't want to believe about the PROGRESSIVE movement, and it's historical significance, much less be aware of it.....and I have to admit, as a child of the DC region, I never heard of the progressive movement either, it was NEVER touched on in history in HS or college far as I recall, maybe a forgettable mention....

BUT, after wondering for decades about why the R party always seemed to always compromise with the HARD LINE Do Mo Craps, and so this nation drifted to more socialism, as to just why the R party always gave in.....and so Beck told the truth for the first time, that it's because the Republicans are in fact dominated by the same sort of group that runs the DoMoCraps....

Ensuring a continued leftward drift, just a matter of speed, not direction....

funny how that crap never made the textbooks....yet another reason the US Dept of Education needs shut down cold and hard.....simply NO need for them, all they do is feed into more regulations.....and provide money for school buses.......:crap::shocking:

Gene. I read the newspaper, and sometimes watch BBC news, since it's real news, and not happy news. Journalism is dead in this country. There are no real reporters anymore. There are no Walter Conkrites or Edward R Morrows.

 

[big2bird]

I may live in a cave. I really don't know anything about this Mexican killed, gun story dealy bop. Anyone have a link to bring me up to speed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal
Fairly accurate account here.
This only came to light when a US border patrol agent was killed with one of the guns. The gov't then tried to procecute the gun shop who was directed by the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) to follow through on the sale of the guns, even after they reported it as a probable illegal sale (sales of multiple guns on numerous ocations [current gun laws at work here]). The procecution was dropped when the factual correspondance between the gun shop and the ATF was made available. I guess nobody cared as long as it was only Mexicans.

Bird, even if you don't agree with Fox news, you need to watch it or listen to Rush or Hannady, etc., just to get both sides of the story. The main stream media is pretty biased, and won't publish or will distort many issues, as is the case here.
Daryll Isa--US congressman from your neighbor city of San Diego, is leading the congressional investigation. You can also check his web site.

So the ATF tried a new tactic, and it failed. At least they tried something.

 

[mrvette]

Jeff is maybe ten years younger than me, and grew up looking at MSM, and so being out in the REAL country, not on top of the bullshit and lies like I was growing up....by pure happenstance......

He believes the MSM, but the truth of the matter is.....Glen Beck was correct, and so was Uncle Barry Goldwater, in '64......

Most folks don't want to believe about the PROGRESSIVE movement, and it's historical significance, much less be aware of it.....and I have to admit, as a child of the DC region, I never heard of the progressive movement either, it was NEVER touched on in history in HS or college far as I recall, maybe a forgettable mention....

BUT, after wondering for decades about why the R party always seemed to always compromise with the HARD LINE Do Mo Craps, and so this nation drifted to more socialism, as to just why the R party always gave in.....and so Beck told the truth for the first time, that it's because the Republicans are in fact dominated by the same sort of group that runs the DoMoCraps....

Ensuring a continued leftward drift, just a matter of speed, not direction....

funny how that crap never made the textbooks....yet another reason the US Dept of Education needs shut down cold and hard.....simply NO need for them, all they do is feed into more regulations.....and provide money for school buses.......:crap::shocking:

Gene. I read the newspaper, and sometimes watch BBC news, since it's real news, and not happy news. Journalism is dead in this country. There are no real reporters anymore. There are no Walter Conkrites or Edward R Morrows.

Walt was as liberal as they came, and his reporting reflected that.....

and you are correct, the 'news reporters are just talking heads, never ever asking questions of anything or anyone in .gov or even thinking a bit critical over some new wire, closest thing to that is FOX, and they are slipping a LOT recently....

 

[bobs77vet]

[
Where do you come up with this stuff? This is absolutely not what happened, emails ARE not "secrets". Even if they were, they could have had that content redacted. They didn't even do that.

Bottom line, the justice department is responsible for the death of a border agent and hundreds if not thousands of Mexicans. Don't tell me thae Bush admin started this (no one was killed on his watch).

....
Congressional hearings are NOT grand jury's!

emails that contain information relating to an active criminal investigation will never be released. some of the information that was not released to congress contained Grand Jury information, my point is DOJ could not have released all the information congress wanted. and I agree ATF is responsible for the this horribly stupid invsetigation and all its aspects and people need to be punished for it.

and remember just because you and I dont know about a criminal investigation it doesnt mean there isnt one happening.

 

[BBShark]

[
Where do you come up with this stuff? This is absolutely not what happened, emails ARE not "secrets". Even if they were, they could have had that content redacted. They didn't even do that.

Bottom line, the justice department is responsible for the death of a border agent and hundreds if not thousands of Mexicans. Don't tell me thae Bush admin started this (no one was killed on his watch).

....
Congressional hearings are NOT grand jury's!

emails that contain information relating to an active criminal investigation will never be released. some of the information that was not released to congress contained Grand Jury information, my point is DOJ could not have released all the information congress wanted. and I agree ATF is responsible for the this horribly stupid invsetigation and all its aspects and people need to be punished for it.

and remember just because you and I dont know about a criminal investigation it doesnt mean there isnt one happening.

There is so much wrong with this statement I don't know where to begin, so I'm not going to try. :banghead:

Bottom line, the DOJ is responsible for what happened and continues to happen (death of border patrol agent and Mexican citizens). The exectutive order made this information "privileged" and hid it from everyone. Do you think the president did this because there was nothing to hide?

 

[DeeVeeEight]

Jeff is maybe ten years younger than me, and grew up looking at MSM, and so being out in the REAL country, not on top of the bullshit and lies like I was growing up....by pure happenstance......

He believes the MSM, but the truth of the matter is.....Glen Beck was correct, and so was Uncle Barry Goldwater, in '64......

Most folks don't want to believe about the PROGRESSIVE movement, and it's historical significance, much less be aware of it.....and I have to admit, as a child of the DC region, I never heard of the progressive movement either, it was NEVER touched on in history in HS or college far as I recall, maybe a forgettable mention....

BUT, after wondering for decades about why the R party always seemed to always compromise with the HARD LINE Do Mo Craps, and so this nation drifted to more socialism, as to just why the R party always gave in.....and so Beck told the truth for the first time, that it's because the Republicans are in fact dominated by the same sort of group that runs the DoMoCraps....

Ensuring a continued leftward drift, just a matter of speed, not direction....

funny how that crap never made the textbooks....yet another reason the US Dept of Education needs shut down cold and hard.....simply NO need for them, all they do is feed into more regulations.....and provide money for school buses.......:crap::shocking:

Gene. I read the newspaper, and sometimes watch BBC news, since it's real news, and not happy news. Journalism is dead in this country. There are no real reporters anymore. There are no Walter Conkrites or Edward R Morrows.

Walt was as liberal as they came, and his reporting reflected that.....

and you are correct, the 'news reporters are just talking heads, never ever asking questions of anything or anyone in .gov or even thinking a bit critical over some new wire, closest thing to that is FOX, and they are slipping a LOT recently....

TELL ME IT'S NOT TRUE! OH MY GOD! YOU MEAN ALL THIS TIME IT HAS BEEN NOTHING BUT PROPAGANDA?:mobeer:

I don't believe most of the shit - and it is shit, that is broadcast on the TV, from the all too often incorrect weather person right on down the line. It is only the side of the story (if it is real at all) that the .gov wants you to see.
Remember the Y2K crisis? The electrical grids were supposed to crash along with the internet and everyone's PC's. Propaganda. I got caught. I went out and bought a 4KW generator, which I may have used all of 4 times since late 1999.....
We are all motivated by strong emotions, mainly FEAR. The .gov knows that all too well and uses it to their advantage. We are manipulated every day of our lives. Our sense of "reality" is just that - our sense of it. It has noting to do with another societies' sense of reality, they have a totally different view. Our view is right for us but not for them, and the same for the other way around.
Shake it off - fuggedabout it. Go outside and get in touch with your personal reality.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

^^^ yep, don't worry about what you can't change.

 

[big2bird]

The exectutive order made this information "privileged" and hid it from everyone. Do you think the president did this because there was nothing to hide?

Sometimes hiding is protecting.
Alot of DEA/ATF guys are undercover. We don't exactly publish the names of CIA operatives either.

 

[big2bird]

Walt was as liberal as they came, and his reporting reflected that.....

You really don't like anyone who disagrees with you.

Goldwater was a dinosauer.

 

[BBShark]

The exectutive order made this information "privileged" and hid it from everyone. Do you think the president did this because there was nothing to hide?

Sometimes hiding is protecting.
Alot of DEA/ATF guys are undercover. We don't exactly publish the names of CIA operatives either.

Have you ever heard of redacting documents? Very common and was offered by the Congressional investigators This would black out any information that the DOJ thought would compromise agents.

 

[big2bird]

The exectutive order made this information "privileged" and hid it from everyone. Do you think the president did this because there was nothing to hide?

Sometimes hiding is protecting.
Alot of DEA/ATF guys are undercover. We don't exactly publish the names of CIA operatives either.

Have you ever heard of redacting documents?

Yes.
The watergate transcripts, were sheets of black paper. Generated by a REPUBLICAN president, protected by executive privelage by another REPUBLICAN president.
But tricky Dick was a great guy. He opened trade/er/sell out of this country to China. What a guy.

 

[68L71]

Sometimes hiding is protecting.

Yeah like hiding income to protect it from those who think they can do better with it than you can.

 

[big2bird]

Sometimes hiding is protecting.

Yeah like hiding income to protect it from those who think they can do better with it than you can.

Mitt and his Caymen Island accounts?

Funny. They say Mitt asked all VP candidates for 10 years of IRS records. I wonder why?